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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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At 5:42 p.m. there were 2 patrol cars on duty and they were 25 calls behind. When second shift came on they will catch hell!
For 2 days the scanners have been crazy.
seems we have some overtime on tap for a number of officers. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:21 pm |
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D
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| OK follow this math with me. If every officer works 48 hours a week (considering that there are 12 hour shifts now and much of the private sector works this) and lets assume 20 of the 104 cops do not do any patrolling, a very logical idea, that should leave us with 24 patrol cops per shift. Now lets assume a third are out sick or on leave, that still leaves us with 16 patrol cops. Can anyone tell me why we have 2 patrolling? |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:37 pm |
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Crowfeeder
F L I N T O I D
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| God forbid the blue flue.Keep your powder dry,and your buckets full.
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:49 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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quote:
munnbreslin schreef:
OK follow this math with me. If every officer works 48 hours a week (considering that there are 12 hour shifts now and much of the private sector works this) and lets assume 20 of the 104 cops do not do any patrolling, a very logical idea, that should leave us with 24 patrol cops per shift. Now lets assume a third are out sick or on leave, that still leaves us with 16 patrol cops. Can anyone tell me why we have 2 patrolling?
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You don't pay attention. Officers have been putting the work schedule for 12 hour shifts on here since they were first suggested. You are giving each officer 16 hours overtime per pay period. they do not work 48 hr weeks every week.
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
That is a good question. But you are forgetting the officers that are COPS and are still working 8 hour shifts, How about the special units and the cops that are assigned to special task forces, who by the terms of the grants are not supposed to be on patrol. Also the 12 hour shifts have officers working only 3 days some weeks to eliminate the overtime. They still may work over 80 hours per 2 week pay period. The officers working 8 hour shifts end up with 4 day weekends on a scheduled basis. Simple math scheduling can't account for all of the complexities. What about officers required to testify in court? There is the "Glory boys" who are on special assignment.
i understand there has been a rash of retirements, including Lt. Speedy. Your math "does not compute" as the city was calculating layoffs according to the administration as recently as 2 days ago. Shift schedules have to be worked out and 14 day notifications are required. You should listen to the real cops who keep telling you 4 to 6 officers per shift. You are screwing around with things you know nothing about.
Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:52 pm |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:57 pm |
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BAH836
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
munnbreslin schreef:
OK follow this math with me. If every officer works 48 hours a week (considering that there are 12 hour shifts now and much of the private sector works this) and lets assume 20 of the 104 cops do not do any patrolling, a very logical idea, that should leave us with 24 patrol cops per shift. Now lets assume a third are out sick or on leave, that still leaves us with 16 patrol cops. Can anyone tell me why we have 2 patrolling?
I can't follow your math when 104-20 equaled anything other than 84.
Example: 104-20= 84. 84/4= 21 not 24. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:03 pm |
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D
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| Are you seriously telling me our officers work 36 hours a week? You have to be joking. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:04 pm |
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D
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| my bad bah836, i rounded the 3.5 shifts down to 3. Lets make it 4. So thats still 21 cops that should be out.... |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:09 pm |
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BAH836
F L I N T O I D
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I don't know why the people who have the actual facts and are knowledgeable in this area continue to argue with you after you've proved multiple times that you don't understand or even have the basic knowledge to argue with them.
But I digress, officers work one eight hour day a pay period to equal 80 hours per pay period. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:11 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
BAH836
F L I N T O I D
quote:
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untanglingwebs schreef:
How will 12 hr shifts work for community police? The two don't seem compatible.
How are you balancing out the hours? Three 12 hour shifts are only 36 hours a week. Will the Flint Police have to be on a different pay schedule to get full pay as a scheduled work day does not include overtime pay.
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I'm not sure what you mean by not compatible, but I would propose putting half on a day shift and the other half on a cover shift (3p-3a) or something along those lines. In other municipalities, community police work 10 hour shifts, but they are able to flex their hours depending on the needs of the neighborhood they are assigned to.
A straight 12 hour shift schedule works out to 84 hours in a pay period (7 working days in a 14 day period). Each agency varies on how to handle the extra 4 hours. Some agencies pay the extra four hours in overtime pay or comp time. Others replace one 12 hour shift with an 8 hour shift to equal 80 hours. Some even work two 10 hour shifts instead of straight 12's to remove the extra four hours.
Below is an example of a straight 12 hour schedule. Notice on week two, the employee only works 2 days.
Mon- work
Tues- work
Wed- off
Thur- off
Fri- work
Sat- work
Sun- work
Mon- off
Tue- off
Wed- work
Thur- work
Fri- off
Sat- off
Sun- off
Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:29 pm
countynews
F L I N T O I D
Your schedule works as you would have the employees working 14, twelve hour days in a 28 day period for a total of 168 hours. No OT is required until after 171 hours as the FLSA has special provisions regarding the payment of OT for police and fire personnel. Of course, these provisions would be negotiable but on its face, the law would provides what you are looking for without the need to pay OT.
For your reference, Section 7(k) of the FLSA provides that employees engaged in fire protection or law enforcement may be paid overtime on a "work period" basis. A "work period" may be from 7 consecutive days to 28 consecutive days in length. For example, fire protection personnel are due overtime under such a plan after 212 hours worked during a 28-day period, while law enforcement personnel must receive overtime after 171 hours worked during a 28-day period. For work periods of at least 7 but less than 28 days, overtime pay is required when the number of hours worked exceeds the number of hours which bears the same relationship to 212 (fire) or 171 (police) as the number of days in the work period bears to 28.
_________________
Been there....done that.
Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:25 pm
Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:37 pm |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:11 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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| When police are helping with fires, as dave indicated elsewhere, there are fewer officers to do patrol. Pull 2 officers for a nasty domestic or other problem and fewer patrol. Simple math will never deal with the issues. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:15 pm |
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D
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| so clearly these laws need to be revised to meet the current status of police and fire. Why do we continue to suffer with old systems designed for department of a much larger stature? |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:15 pm |
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D
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| and so when we say 2 are on patrol, we do not mean 2 officers are working in flint, but that 2 are not tied with other disputes or on task forces (south side). There are many more than 2 currently working, just not necessarily moving in a cruiser without district restrictions. Lets be clear. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:20 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| I just came from a meeting attended by chief Lock. He said the foot patrol will have 2 officers per ward, one on days & one on nights. Hours will be 9-5 on days and 5-1 on nights. He said they will knock on doors & introduce themselves to all the residents. Supposedly, they will on duty starting Monday. I really can't see them patrolling anywhere on foot at night. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:22 pm |
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andi03
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
munnbreslin schreef:
OK follow this math with me. If every officer works 48 hours a week (considering that there are 12 hour shifts now and much of the private sector works this) and lets assume 20 of the 104 cops do not do any patrolling, a very logical idea, that should leave us with 24 patrol cops per shift. Now lets assume a third are out sick or on leave, that still leaves us with 16 patrol cops. Can anyone tell me why we have 2 patrolling?
Dude....why don't you get it? I heard that men are visual beings, follow me here...
About 1 year ago I went on two midnight roll calls to present with a friend of mine. On the first roll call there were about 7 people. On the second roll call there were about 5. Imagine a bunch of 'em gone, fading away one by one, like a movie where they disappear in a cloud poof.
That's what you have left. Doing traffic control for a fire and being 20 some odd calls behind? Yeah....that's what'yer dealing with. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:22 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| I listened to the scanner all day today, & wrote down car numbers - there were only 5 different cars sent on calls all day. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:23 pm |
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