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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Who was the knife wielder there?
Does it really matter. I posted this to show what can happen because some on here claim she only had a knife and it was only so big and how much damage could she do. Ever watch an episode of cops when they try to handcuff a petite female who is high or drunk or both and who is determined she aint going down. Adrenalin is a hell of a power booster. I still say and agree with those that getting tasers avaliable to all officers is the way to go. |
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"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:00 pm |
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Smakutus
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
twotap schreef:
quote:
Who was the knife wielder there?
Does it really matter. I posted this to show what can happen because some on here claim she only had a knife and it was only so big and how much damage could she do. Ever watch an episode of cops when they try to handcuff a petite female who is high or drunk or both and who is determined she aint going down. Adrenalin is a hell of a power booster. I still say and agree with those that getting tasers avaliable to all officers is the way to go.
Yeah it matters a lot. You'd handle a knife wielding 6'6" guy suspected of being on angel dust or whatever, far differently than you would a small woman in her mid 40's who may be drunk.
They could have tasered that woman and she could have died of a heart attack. People would still be pissed at the resulting death, but I'd feel better about that than her being shot so many times.
Jeff |
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Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:25 pm |
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Ponycar
F L I N T O I D
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| I didn't expect that the Flint police officers would be charged in this case. Based on everything that I read about it, they acted exactly how they are trained.Its easy to be a monday morning quarterback when you don't know how they are trained. |
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A government big enough to give you everything is also powerful enough to take it all away. |
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Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:34 am |
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Public D
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Ponycar schreef:
Its easy to be a monday morning quarterback when you don't know how they are trained.
Or
if
they are trained. |
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:43 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| They did what they were trained to do. When someone comes at you with a weapon, you don't mess with pepper spray, you put them down. This incident is a good argument for Tasers. |
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I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:03 am |
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Ponycar
F L I N T O I D
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| Tasers may have worked. But since Flint police don't carry them, they confronted a subject armed with a deadly weapon capable of inflicting death or serious bodily harm with deadly force. It does not matter how big the knife was. I have a 2 inch blade that is razor sharp. One slice across someones face with it and they're done. I'm sure it was traumatizing for the kids who were there to see this happen. The police response was on account of this lady's actions. If the police would have allowed this lady to cut one of them would that have made it better ? These officers want to go home to their families at the end of their day. Not the morgue or hospital All this lady had to do was drop the damn knife when they ordered her to. |
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A government big enough to give you everything is also powerful enough to take it all away. |
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Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:07 am |
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Public D
F L I N T O I D
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:37 pm |
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scrwedinflint
F L I N T O I D
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| I just find it hard to believe that there are people out there that will condemn the police officers but apparently have no problem with the drunk wielding a knife. Until you're put in the position of having to defend yourself against ANYONE with a knife, you have no idea what you would do. These officers should get a medal as far as I'm concerned. They did their job exactly the way you they were trained. I bet if the woman with a knife was coming at you and the officers shot her you would feel differently. |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:26 pm |
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andi03
F L I N T O I D
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scrwedinflint quote: "Until you're put in the position of having to defend yourself against ANYONE with a knife, you have no idea what you would do."
My response: This is the absolute key sentence that I have been waiting for since the thread started, in all honesty. Good job. |
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Build a bridge and get over it! |
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Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:04 pm |
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Smakutus
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
scrwedinflint schreef:
I just find it hard to believe that there are people out there that will condemn the police officers but apparently have no problem with the drunk wielding a knife. Until you're put in the position of having to defend yourself against ANYONE with a knife, you have no idea what you would do. These officers should get a medal as far as I'm concerned. They did their job exactly the way you they were trained. I bet if the woman with a knife was coming at you and the officers shot her you would feel differently.
I have a problem with drunk people and knifes. I just don't think they needed to shoot her.
Any lawyers here? What would happen to a "regular" person if they had shot this woman over and over?
Jeff |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:47 am |
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Ted Jankowski
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As I stated from DAY ONE. Police followed procedure to the letter.
Granted I'm now older, out of shape, not as fast as I used to be.
Personally, I have been involved in Drunks with knifes, Broken Beer Bottles, Pool Cues, etc. Many of whom are actually trained to use knifes had it not been for the fact they were drunk.
Why do you guys keep over looking the obvious.
WHich is the more effective Weapon?
A three inch Knife or a 24 inch baton?
Baton every time. The policy is what should be looked at.
The way I read everything is that Shooting the Lady was the only response they were to consider.
In the Corps we had ROE's. Rules of Engagement that we followed in every conflict. Panama we had a set of rules that changed from time to time depending on what level of PML we were in. Same with Kuiat.
We also have ROE for Terrorist engangement. Which is the one I'm using as an example. We were only allowed to respond there with the same level of weapon. We were ni those cases not allowed to respond with more superior weapon. Unlike the Italians who used a better system of OVERKILL in response to an attack. If the terrorist used a pistol, the Italians respond with a rocket laucher. Unlike the US we were told use same caliber or higher if you don't have the same.
My only point was that our officers didn't seem to have the option of making a decsion to use a superior weapon. Only to kill her.
I just know what I can do. I understand they followed procedure. I only wonder about a policy that doesn't allow officer to make judgment calls on their own. |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:35 am |
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Bossman
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| Ted, interesting analogies; however, they are not comprable to this situtation. Police officers use of force policies authorize a "plus one" method of defense and control. Whatever force the adversary is deploying, the police are allowed to move one step higher on the use of force continuum scale. This is the standard nationwide, not just in Flint. In this case, the drunken, deranged female was using deadly force(a knife), the officers were not going to de-escalate to an impact weapon.(batons, tasers and chemical sprays are in this category) The only logical response was to respond with deadly force. The officers are alive and unharmed, and were able to go home to their families at the end of their shift. The wacko, drunk lady who refused to comply with police commands and threatened to take their lives is no longer living. No problem. Perfect police policy, perfect protocol, and perfect compliance by the officers. |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:52 pm |
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Demeralda
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I just cannot agree with this train of thought.
Ok, so most people don't know what they'd do if confronted with a knife. Isn't that what police are supposed to be trained to do?
Why, exactly, didn't they just use pepper spray? I frickin know they have that, because I've been the recipient.
Excessive force, all the way. I'm not saying they should've been jailed for it. I understand that these things can and do happen. However, please don't justify it as if it was their only choice. And one shot should've been enough. Why SO MANY shots?
It seems to me from most of the responses here that you people see too many movies about the dead corpse that suddenly pops back up and gets 'em in the end.
Twotap, nice image to scare us all into agreeing, but I just don't believe this is anywhere the same. Particularly when you read the eyewitness accounts.
PS - Public D, is that your real phone number? I'd like to call you, I'm seriously considering having your baby. LOL |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:53 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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Of all the posts on this thread I believe the no.1 post would have to be Demeralda getting turned on and wanting to be impregnated.   Of course now we need to hear about the pepper spray incident from her.
Last edited by twotap on Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:02 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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Bossman, that is the perfect policy. Yes the officers are safe and the Lady is dead. I can't help but think about so many other situations we've all seen on TV. (Damn that TV reality stuff). Were we have seen crazy people with a gun barracaded, or even out in the open, who were subdued using non leathel methods. Such as the Bean Bag laucher, or a taser live on TV.
We've met before. I know your size and you know your experience. Are you sure you would have reacted the same way these officers did? Didn't they call back for insructions? I'm pretty sure you have the experience to make the decsion on your own as to what to do. After having met you. I'm not sure you would have shot her! You may have. But, I'd be a lot more confident it was the correct action taken if you had been there.
And yes I understand this is civilian life and I don't know everything about police work. I do understand policy's and procedures. And I know that under the leadership (or lack thereof) they are under now. Many times they are written up for doing their job properly and rarely for doing it wrong. This administration has discouraged good officers from taking initiative, making decsions on their own, and being able to follow up on incidents that deal with the Citizens of Flint. If it's not a Don Williamson priority. Then it is the wrong thing to be involved in. I'm sure you know better than most on here what I'm talking about.
I see you took the time to read what I was saying. hopefully, you remmember what I wrote before also. So you can see the whole picture. Most would rather argue about the example rather that look at the actual substance of the whole.
But what does my opinion really matter in the grand scheme of things. I've been telling people for years that the Don has been lying. I'm finally proven beyond a reasonable doubt and people still don't listen or believe. I have been wrong about something. I didn't think things would get any worse in Flint. Now, the jail is to be closed again. It won't matter if we loose 60 officers or gain 200. If we keep handing out tickets instead of taking criminals off the street. Things will continue to get worse. |
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Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:01 pm |
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