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BAH836
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
Had an interesting lunch todya. It appears that Snyder's hand picked trio-Kurtz, Brown & Lock- maay have gotten so tangled up in their web of deceit that the former Flint officers, currently in Saginaw, may not stay in Flint.
As BAH836 so aptly stated they were initially told they would receive the salary they had when they were laid off. Then they were told that they would only receive the base salary for a rookie with no step increases until the Emergency Manager leaves. While their future in Saginaw is up in the air, how can they trust this administration after being lied to?
Brown refuses to speak to the union and in my opinion is blatantly attempting to union-bust. Kurtz gets mad and hangs up on the union. In the latest snafu, the union president, Kevin Smith, has been to the human resources attempting to get a straight answer about what the pay grade will be. The union position is that rookie pay is for rookies and if you want experienced officers then you pay a commenserate pay for that experience. In the past this was done.
Kurtz was furious that the union was attempting to get an answer, but promised an answer today. I don't believe things went well. I believe the three will be leaving. The psychological impact of the lies and the understanding they are entering a department with multiple lawsuits for reverse discrimination and a failure to follow the rules could be impossible to overcome.
The officers have not been offered a job and would be ill advised to take it because they cannot get a straight answer regarding pay and step increases. |
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Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:31 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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The officers have been negotiating with the Police administration for at least a week. Today was the deadline in which Kurtz promised them an answer as to their proposed salary. I am waiting to hear what happened.
Officers in Flint pay a hefty portion of their health care. A pay cut of $8 to $9 an hour doesn't make the change viable. They could end up risking their lives for about $24,000 a year. |
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Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:07 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Fred Anthony, a volunteerat the Ballenger mini-station, came to a meeting at the north side mini station and hid a tape recorder under the table.
It is anyone's speculation who he was recording for. Many openly take notes. Probably no issue if he had put the tape recorder on top of the table. Looks susicious that he is reporting to someone when he feels it necessary to hide the recorder.
HMMMM! |
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Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:29 pm |
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BAH836
F L I N T O I D
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| Today, the new officers were told they would be given step increases. |
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Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:17 pm |
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westflint
F L I N T O I D
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| Walling and Kurtz should take pay cuts, not the police. Where is the money for the police? Who would put their life on the line for $15.00 an hour? |
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Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:17 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Joshua Freeman shared a link on Face book
Flint police numbers up just three officers after new tax, union president claims; city says...
www.mlive.com
The union president for Flint police officers says that the city has gained just three police officers in the more than eight months after a millage promising at least 10 officers was approved by voters..
Barry Simon
can't help but wonder what actual collections have resulted from the 6 mills so far ... was estimating around $550,000 annually when it passed, guessing substantially less over the 6 year period
Tom Prieur
Frustrating, it's the same old shell game that when you ask them why they are not putting out the burning city, the answer comes back that they are studying the price of water in committee. To coin an old phrase, "burn baby burn". Nobody ever gives you a straight answer. I know what we can do, lets change the law and raise the maximum amount of mills that can be assessed and give them a couple more million!! |
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Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:05 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Flint police numbers up just three officers after new tax, union president claims; city says more are on the way
Print David Harris | dharris5@mlive.com By David Harris | dharris5@mlive.com The Flint Journal
on June 14, 2013 at 6:00 AM, updated June 14, 2013 at 6:05 AM
FLINT, MI – The union president for Flint police officers says that the city has gained just three officers in the more than eight months since voters approved a millage promising at least 10 more officers.
Officer Kevin Smith said eight new officers have been hired, but that number was offset by four retirements. One of the new officers, he said, quit after a week to take another job. There are a total of 124 officers, he said.
"It's kind of frustrating they have a $5.3 million millage and they aren't hiring more people," he said.
The police millage that passed in November – 6 mills over five years that would raise $5.3 million in the first year – helps balance the police department staffing levels as grants expire, and officials said 10 new officers would be hired.
City spokesman Jason Lorenz said the positions would be filled as soon as possible.
Mayor Dayne Walling echoed those statements.
"The other side of the coin is without the millage, the city would again be laying off public safety personnel due to decline in property tax revenue," he said.
Public safety grants the city has received include the $1.2 million COPS grant that funds six officers and the $6.9 million SAFER grant by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) that funds 39 firefighters and expires next year. About 55 public safety positions are grant-funded.
A police officer recruit position is listed on the city's website as paying about $23,000 a year, or $11.25 an hour. The recruit would have to complete a 16- to 18-week training academy with a 70 percent average. He or she would also have to live within 20 miles of the city limits of Flint.
Smith said once the recruits get though recruit school, their pay is bumped up to $16 or $18 an hour. Still, it's hard to attract top candidates with that pay, he said.
Comparatively, a Michigan State Police trooper out of recruit school starts at about $41,000.
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You want them to work in Flint, the most dangerous city in the nation," Smith said. "How's that going to attract quality police officers?" |
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Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:12 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Along with their low pay, they get to pay higher insurance and pension costs. Remember Police officers do not get social security when they retire and their retirement is it.
The Mike Kilbreath Show (every day Mon-Fri at 10 am on 600am) discussed Burton officers and the exodus of trained officers from that municipality. The officers have taken s many hits that one lost their home and another is on the verge of losing their home. They are being recruited by other communities with more to offer.
What good officer will stay here, unless close to retirement, when their pay starts to equal that of a fast food worker. |
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Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:20 am |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
Along with their low pay, they get to pay higher insurance and pension costs. Remember Police officers do not get social security when they retire and their retirement is it.
How does their pension contibution and insurance contribution equate to public employees' contribution to social security and medicare? |
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Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:08 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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| Flint Fire and Police do not get social security benefits and there are no contributions made towards that benefit. |
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Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:21 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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From the social security website
Retirement Planner: State and Local Government Employment
Work for a state or local government agency, including a school system, college or university, may or may not be covered by Social Security.
If you are covered by both your state or local pension plan and Social Security, you pay Social Security and Medicare taxes just as you would for any other Social Security covered job. You will see your earnings on your record.
If you are covered only by your state or local pension plan,
•You don't pay Social Security taxes and your earnings won't be on your Social Security record. (Your record will, however, show your Medicare wages if you pay into that program.)
•
Your pension from non covered state or local government employment may affect the amount of your
◦Social Security benefit.
◦Social Security benefit as a spouse. |
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Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:35 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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| This is probably why so many cops moonlight. |
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Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:54 am |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
Flint Fire and Police do not get social security benefits and there are no contributions made towards that benefit.
quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
Along with their low pay, they get to pay higher insurance and pension costs. Remember Police officers do not get social security when they retire and their retirement is it.
Let me put it another way. Assume a policeman and a person working in the public sector both earn $15 hour. If the public employee has to pay social security and medicare from his wages and the policeman does not, then the policeman would have the same amount (equivalent) for contributing to his retirement and medical plans. Then their take-home pay should be similar, and their after-retirement benefits equivalent. I'm not stating this as fact but more as a "why not" question. |
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Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:54 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Would you risk your life for $18 an hour, pay outrageous water bills and rising taxes for homes that continue to lose value while the cost of your insurance and 401k (no pension for new hires)continues to rise? The incentive is to not live in Flint and to search for a job in a community that values your training.
Costco made a point of showing they pay better wages and offer better benefits than companies like Sam's. Their profits are also better.
Some states are considering penalizing companies such as Walmart's who have reduced their employees wages so much the majority of employees qualify for welfare benefits. |
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Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:41 pm |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
Would you risk your life for $18 an hour, pay outrageous water bills and rising taxes for homes that continue to lose value while the cost of your insurance and 401k (no pension for new hires)continues to rise? The incentive is to not live in Flint and to search for a job in a community that values your training.
Been there, done that on less, in fact still doing so. True, there are choices to be made and the younger set may choose to move on if they're not already financially invested here. However, in the long run a newly trained officer is not going to find it much better elsewhere. Also, don't newly trained officers in Flint have to commit to a certain term of employment if the City pays for their training? |
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Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:02 pm |
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