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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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This idiot wants attention so badly that he just keeps on agitating and creating problems in countries that are already explosive.
Afghans Avenge Florida Koran Burning, Killing 12
on Friday.
By ENAYAT NAJAFIZADA and ROD NORDLAND
Published: April 1, 2011
Stirred up by three angry mullahs who urged them to avenge the burning of a Koran at a Florida church, thousands of protesters on Friday overran the compound of the United Nations in this northern Afghan city, killing at least 12 people, Afghan and United Nations officials said.
Pastor Who Burned Koran Demands Retribution (April 2, 2011)
The Lede Blog: A Koran Burning Ignored in U.S. Was News in Afghanistan and Pakistan (April 1, 2011)
The dead included at least seven United Nations workers — four Nepalese guards and three Europeans from Romania, Sweden and Norway — according to United Nations officials in New York. One was a woman. Early reports, later denied by Afghan officials, said that at least two of the dead had been beheaded. Five Afghans were also killed.
The attack was the deadliest for the United Nations in Afghanistan since 11 people were killed in 2009, when Taliban suicide bombers invaded a guesthouse in Kabul. It also underscored the latent hostility toward the nine-year foreign presence here, even in a city long considered to be among the safest in Afghanistan — so safe that American troops no longer patrol here in any numbers.
Unable to find Americans on whom to vent their anger, the mob turned instead on the next-best symbol of Western intrusion — the nearby United Nations headquarters. “Some of our colleagues were just hunted down,” said a spokesman for the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan, Kieran Dwyer, in confirming the attack.
In Washington, President Obama issued a statement strongly condemning the violence against United Nations workers. “Their work is essential to building a stronger Afghanistan for the benefit of all its citizens,” he said. “We stress the importance of calm and urge all parties to reject violence.” The statement made no reference to the Florida church or the Koran burning.
Afghanistan, deeply religious and reflexively volatile, has long been highly reactive to perceived insults against Islam. When a Danish cartoonist lampooned the Prophet Muhammad, four people were killed in riots in Afghanistan within days in 2006. The year before, a one-paragraph item in Newsweek alleging that guards at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, had flushed a Koran down the toilet set off three days of riots that left 14 people dead in Afghanistan.
Friday’s episode began when three mullahs, addressing worshipers at Friday Prayer inside the Blue Mosque here, one of Afghanistan’s holiest places, urged people to take to the streets to agitate for the arrest of Terry Jones, the Florida pastor who oversaw the burning of a Koran on March 20.
Otherwise, said the most prominent of them, Mullah Mohammed Shah Adeli, Afghanistan should cut off relations with the United States. “Burning the Koran is an insult to Islam, and those who committed it should be punished,” he said.
The crowd — some of its members carrying signs reading “Down with America” and “Death to Obama” — poured into the streets and swelled. Gov. Atta Muhammad Noor of Balkh Province, of which Mazar-i-Sharif is the capital, later put the number at 20,000. According to Lal Mohammad Ahmadzai, spokesman for Gen. Daoud Daoud, the Afghan National Police commander for the country’s north, the crowd soon overwhelmed the United Nations guards, disarming some and beating and shooting others.
Gen. Abdul Rauf Taj, the deputy police commander for Balkh Province, put the death toll at eight foreign United Nations staff members, but he said there had not been any beheadings. “Police tried to stop them, but protesters began stoning the building, and finally the situation got out of control,” he said.
Mr. Ahmadzai, however, put the death toll at 10 foreigners in the United Nations compound, 8 killed by gunshots and 2 beheaded.
Mr. Dwyer confirmed that some United Nations staff members had been killed, but he declined to provide a number or the nationalities of the victims until next of kin had been notified.
Mirwais Rabi, director of the public health hospital in Mazar-i-Sharif, said 20 wounded and 5 dead Afghan civilians were brought to the hospital.
The mob also burned down part of the United Nations compound, toppled guard towers and heaved blocks of cement down from the walls. The victims were killed by weapons the demonstrators had wrestled away from the United Nations guards, Mr. Noor said. He listed the dead as five Nepalese guards and two Europeans, a breakdown that varied from the one issued later by Farhan Haq, the deputy United Nations spokesman in New York.
Mr. Noor also blamed what he said were Taliban infiltrators among the crowd for urging violence and even distributing weapons; he said 27 suspects were arrested on charges of inciting violence, some from Kandahar and other provinces where Taliban are more common.
Mr. Jones, the Florida pastor, caused an international uproar by threatening to burn the Koran last year on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks. Among others, the overall commander of forces in Afghanistan, Gen. David H. Petraeus, had warned at that time that such an action could provoke violence in Afghanistan and could endanger American troops. Mr. Jones subsequently promised not to burn a Koran, but he nonetheless presided over a mock trial and then the burning of the Koran at his small church in Gainesville, Fla., on March 20, with only 30 worshipers attending.
The act drew little response worldwide, but provoked angry condemnation in this region, where it was reported in the local media and where anti-American sentiment already runs high. Last week, President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan condemned the burning in an address before Parliament, and President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan on Thursday called on the United States to bring those responsible for the Koran burning to justice.
A prominent Afghan cleric, Mullah Qyamudin Kashaf, the acting head of the influential Ulema Council of Afghanistan and a Karzai appointee, also called for American authorities to arrest and try Mr. Jones in the Koran burning.
The Ulema Council recently met to discuss the Koran burning, Mullah Kashaf said in a telephone interview. “We expressed our deep concerns about this act, and we were expecting the violence that we are witnessing now,” he said. “Unless they try him and give him the highest possible punishment, we will witness violence and protests not only in Afghanistan but in the entire world.”
Mr. Jones was unrepentant. “We must hold these countries and people accountable for what they have done as well as for any excuses they may use to promote their terrorist activities,” he said in a statement. “Islam is not a religion of peace. It is time that we call these people to accountability.”
Last year, even though Mr. Jones called off his burning of the Koran, a subsequent wave of protests at NATO facilities in Afghanistan led to at least five deaths. In several of those episodes, Taliban agitators played a role; they were said to have spread rumors that the Koran burning had taken place. However, the Taliban have had little or no presence in Mazar-i-Sharif.
In other developments in Afghanistan, six American soldiers were killed in a single operation in the country’s east on Wednesday and Thursday, a spokesman for the international coalition said Friday.
“I can confirm that six coalition soldiers have been identified as U.S. soldiers, and were all killed as part of the same operation, but in three separate incidents,” said Maj. Tim James.
The operation, a helicopter assault into a remote part of Kunar Province close to the Pakistani border, was continuing. The area is frequently used to infiltrate fighters from Pakistan. The purpose of the operation, Major James said, was to “disrupt insurgent operations.”
The governor of Kunar Province, Said Fazlullah Wahidi, said the operation began Wednesday as a joint Afghan and American air and ground operation in the districts of Sarkani and Marawara, close to the border of Pakistan. He said that 14 insurgents were killed and 10 were wounded, but he had no information about casualties among Afghan forces.
Enayat Najafizada reported from Mazar-i-Sharif and Rod Nordland from Kabul, Afghanistan. Sharifullah Sahak contributed reporting from Kabul, and Dan Bilefsky and Timothy Williams from New York.
Last edited by untanglingwebs on Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:09 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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Ah yes the religion of peace.
Afghanistan, deeply religious and reflexively volatile, has long been highly reactive to perceived insults against Islam. When a Danish cartoonist lampooned the Prophet Muhammad, four people were killed in riots in Afghanistan within days in 2006. The year before, a one-paragraph item in Newsweek alleging that guards at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, had flushed a Koran down the toilet set off three days of riots that left 14 people dead in Afghanistan. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:20 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Rick Sanchez.Journalist, reporter, news anchor
Like.
.Burning the Quran Is No Childish Game
Posted: 04/ 1/11 12:44 PM ET React Important
Quran , Terry Jones Quran Burning , Politics News
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Yesterday afternoon, as I played basketball in the driveway with my son and daughter, an argument arose over who hit the ball out of bounds. My feisty 10-year-old daughter tried to settle the argument by launching the ball at the back of her 12-year-old brother's head. That made him so angry, he took the ball and kicked it into the woods. Game over.
Children have to be taught to settle disputes and express their opinions respectfully. Unfortunately, it's a lesson some adults never seem to have learned.
Take, for example, Terry Jones, the pistol-packing Florida pastor who threatened to burn a Quran on 9/11 last year. Well, a little over a week ago, he... you guessed it. He burned a Quran.
If you recall, Jones didn't go through with it last year because there was such an outcry from nearly everyone -- President Obama, Secretary of Defense Gates, politicians from both sides of the aisle, celebrities, religious leaders, regular folk and pretty much anyone with a lick of common sense -- that burning a Quran, and offending one and a half billion people, wasn't a good or sane idea.
But it may have been General David Petraeus whose argument was the most convincing -- at least for me. When I spoke with him last year, he boiled it down to a simple matter of life and death. General Petraeus said that there was nothing brave about burning the Quran over here while our soldiers pay the consequences over there -- in Afghanistan, Iraq and now, Libya.
When I interviewed Jones last year, I did my level best to hear him out. But all I could think of was how I would feel, as a Christian, if somebody desecrated my most sacred book, the Bible. His only defense was to say that the Quran wasn't sacred to him.
The leader of the Dove World Outreach Center -- the irony in the name shouldn't be lost on anyone -- began this year's campaign of hate with a new angle. Instead of a simple book burning, Jones decided to first put the holy book of Islam on "trial." He dubbed it, "International Judge the Quran Day." The thinking must have been that if the book were "guilty," then it deserved to get burned.
About 30 people attended, 12 of whom formed the "jury." For good measure, the mock trial featured a prosecuting attorney and defense lawyer. However, in case you have any doubts, it was Jones who was not only the "judge" in this kangaroo court but also the jury and executioner. I think you can guess the verdict. With the outcome certain, it's a wonder Jones had it go on for more than six hours. After soaking a Quran in kerosene for an hour, Jones oversaw the torching of the book.
Fresh off last year's circus as well as last week's circus trial, Jones wants another 15 minutes of fame. So he's now decided to fly to Dearborn, Michigan, on April 22 where he'll protest outside the Islamic Center of America, the country's largest mosque. Jones says he's not protesting against Muslims, but that he's protesting against Islamic law. He says he wants Muslims to "honor, obey and submit to the Constitution of the United States."
Last I checked, I haven't seen any lobbying efforts by Muslim Americans to have the U.S. Constitution overturned.
Ignoring Jones and hoping he disappears into obscurity doesn't seem to work. If anything, he seems to have the survivability of a cockroach. Jones has to be confronted head-on, and that is exactly what an interfaith group of 35 pastors and imams from the Detroit-metro area is doing.
On Monday, the group spoke out against Jones' visit and announced they were planning a prayer vigil in response. Reverend Charles Williams II of the King Solomon Baptist Church said, "As a Christian minister, silence for me would be consent."
As much as I dislike giving Jones any more attention and a 16th minute of fame, silence and inaction in the face of bigotry don't work. Worse, they can unfortunately -- and incorrectly -- signal approval or at the very least acceptance. Jones needs to realize that his words and actions make him the very thing he despises: He is no better than the fringe of Muslims who hate.
Hate masquerading as political protest is still hate, which is why Jones must be repudiated so he realizes that his actions are not only offensive, but also dangerous -- especially to our troops.
We teach our children that they can disagree without being disagreeable. That lesson evolves as we grow older. As adults, we learn that we can protest peacefully and that we can oppose something without being offensive.
Like Terry Jones, my daughter tried to explain to me why she was right to throw the ball at her brother. I explained to her why she was wrong and sent her to her room, much to my son's delight. But that was short-lived because he too was sent packing to his room with what we in the South call a "talking to."
Terry Jones needs to be taught the same lesson, but his is not a game. His actions can have dire consequences for all of us. The lesson he needs to learn is that he has every right to express his opinion about Islam or to disagree with Muslims, but he doesn't have to spit in their faces to do it. He didn't need to desecrate a book that one and a half billion people hold sacred in order to make a point. He shouldn't needlessly put the lives of our armed forces at greater risk.
Terry Jones lives in the South, so he'll understand this idiom as well as anybody: Terry Jones needs a "talking to." Here's how you can talk to Jones.
Mailing Address:
5200 NW 43rd St
Ste. 102 #188
Gainesville, FL 32606-4486
Phone:
352-371-2487
Fax:
352-371-6511
Email:
info@doveworld.org
Related News On Huffington Post:
Afghanistan Quran Protest Leaves Up To 20 Dead, Two U.N. Staffers Reportedly Beheaded
MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan, April 1 (Reuters) - Afghan protesters angered by the burning of a Koran by an obscure U.S. pastor killed up to 20...
Quran Burning: Is It An Insult Or Intimidation?
By Omar Sacirbey Religion News Service (RNS) A few bullet holes may be the difference between a burnt Quran left at a mosque in Knoxville,...
Burned Quran Found Outside Muslim Community Center In Chicago
A burned copy of Islam's holy book was found in front of a Muslim center in Chicago last weekend. The charred Quran was discovered outside...
Afghanistan Quran Protest Leaves Up To 20 Dead, Two U.N. Staffers Reportedly Beheaded Quran Burning: Is It An Insult Or Intimidation? Burned Quran Found Outside Muslim Community Center In Chicago
Afghanistan Quran Protest Leaves Up To 20 Dead, Two U.N. Staffers Reportedly Beheaded
MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan, April 1 (Reuters) - Afghan protesters angered by the burning of a Koran by an obscure U.S. pastor killed up to 20...
Quran Burning: Is It An Insult Or Intimidation?
By Omar Sacirbey Religion News Service (RNS) A few bullet holes may be the difference between a burnt Quran left at a mosque in Knoxville,...
Burned Quran Found Outside Muslim Community Center In Chicago
A burned copy of Islam's holy book was found in front of a Muslim center in Chicago last weekend. The charred Quran was discovered outside... Read more from Huffington Post bloggers:
Jon M. Sweeney Jon M. Sweeney: How to Properly Dispose of Unwanted Holy Books
Jon M. Sweeney: How to Properly Dispose of Unwanted Holy Books
An unwanted holy book, be it Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or any other scripture, can be disposed of humanely and appropriately, but not burned. You never, ever burn them. |
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:19 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Quran Burning: Is It An Insult Or Intimidation?
First Posted: 09/23/10 10:36 PM ET Updated: 03/23/11 09:09 AM ET
By Omar Sacirbey
Religion News Service
(RNS) A few bullet holes may be the difference between a burnt Quran left at a mosque in Knoxville, Tenn., and one left at a mosque in East Lansing, Mich.
On Tuesday (Sept. 21), Ingham County Prosecutor Stuart Dunnings said the man who allegedly left a burnt Quran outside the Islamic Center of Lansing on Sept. 11 would not face charges because the act doesn't fall under Michigan's criminal code.
In contrast, FBI agents in Knoxville are still determining whether whoever left a burnt and shot Quran at the entrance to the Annoor Mosque committed a hate crime, based on a 1968 law that makes it a federal offense to use force to prevent anyone from carrying out their religious beliefs.
"The fact that the burnt and shot Quran was placed on mosque property can be construed as a threat of force," said Knoxville FBI special agent Richard L. Lambert. "The issue comes down to determining what was the perpetrator's intent."
Lambert said that if the Annoor Mosque incident does not fall under federal hate crime, it could still be prosecuted under Tennessee's civil rights intimidation law, or other state misdemeanor laws, such as disorderly conduct.
Following a spate of Quran burnings this month, Muslim Americans and legal experts are wrangling over whether burning Islam's holy book is an exercise of free speech, or a hate crime, akin to burning a cross.
The answer depends on whether the intent is to insult or intimidate, and it most cases intimidation can be tough to prove, legal experts say.
"It's virtually out of the question," said Mark Potok, director of the Intelligence Project at the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which monitors hate crimes.
"The government can punish speech only if it's a 'true threat,' which is to say speech expressly intended and likely to create an imminent fear of bodily injury," said Daniel Mach, a senior attorney with the ACLU's Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief.
U.S. Muslim groups also acknowledge that burning a Quran in many scenarios -- for example, when done on one's private property -- is constitutionally protected free speech. The threatened Quran burn by Florida pastor Terry Jones, or actual Quran burns by Kansas pastor Fred Phelps, are protected forms of speech.
But many also believe that in the cases of the burnt Qurans left anonymously at mosques -- especially books with bullet holes -- it's hard to construe any intent other than intimidation.
The Michigan chapter of the Council of American-Islamic Relations has called on federal law enforcement officials to consider bringing federal hate crime charges in the East Lansing case against the alleged perpetrator, who turned himself in on Sept. 15 after police announced a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest.
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If the KKK burns a cross on private property, that's legal. But if they burn a cross at an African-American church, that's a hate crime," said Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman at CAIR's Washington headquarters.
"It's the same with a Quran. If you burn a Quran in your backyard or in your church, that's free speech. But if you leave a burnt Quran at the entrance of mosque, you're trying to scare people."
Intimidation became an important threshold in 2003, when the Supreme Court upheld a Virginia law against cross-burning where the intent is to intimidate, but also said cross-burning itself is not evidence of intimidation.
The 1968 Federal Hate Crimes Law made it a federal offense to attack or intimidate someone based on race, religion or national origin. The 2009 Matthew Shepard Act expanded federal hate crimes protections to include gender and sexual orientation.
Members of the Islamic Center of Greater Lansing said they forgave the individual who left the burnt Quran, and said they want to put the case behind them. But they also wouldn't discourage CAIR from pressing the FBI to pursue charges.
A spokeswoman in the FBI Detroit office said she could not confirm or deny whether they were investigating the case.
"We felt intimidated," said Thasin Sardar, a worshipper at the mosque, which requested police security for the week following the incident. Parents with children at the mosque's school were especially panicked, Sardar said. "They don't want to let people think its open season on Muslims."
FOLLOW HUFFPOST RELIGION
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:31 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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In 2010 CNN did an investigation into Pastor Terry Jones and his former church in Cologne, Germany. Former parishioners said Jones borrowed slogans from Hitler and said he was sent to Germany by God, He told parishoners they must obey him because to disobey him was to disobey God,
He was said to be a charismatic leader who encouraged his followers to sell their homes and belongings for the benefit of the church. When one couple left and stood up to him, many others followed. The church, which had up to 1,000 members, severed ties with Jones in 2008. Many parishoners are said to still be in counseling as a result of their relationship with Jones.
Jones also maintained the Florida Church while he was in Germany. The CNN religion analyst interviewed by CNN theorized that Jones was trying to rebuild his influence with the publicity over the Quran burning. |
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:10 am |
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J HUNTINGWORTH TUNE
F L I N T O I D
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I find the desecration of a book so many hold as the word of God,one of the most vile and pointless acts possible.Ideas don't burn.
In this increasingly small world people of good will must learn to reason together...That is all of us who are capable of that faculty.Failure will surely lead to conflagration. |
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:26 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Terry Jones: Inside the Koran Burner’s Church
by Leon Dische Becker Info
Leon Dische Becker is a freelance journalist/editor living in New York.
X Close
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In early September 2010, the Dove World Outreach Center, a tiny Christian congregation from Gainesville, Florida, commanded the attention of the world media for several news cycles, with their plan to burn a pile of Korans on the anniversary of September 11. A day before the anniversary of the attacks, facing considerable pressure from government officials, the church abruptly canceled the bonfire.
The church pastor, Terry Jones, promised never again to burn Islamic holy books. By March 20th of this year, starved for attention, he'd apparently reneged. Broadcasting live on a Coptic satellite channel, available throughout the Middle East, Jones and his followers put the Koran on mock trial, and eventually convicted it on murder, rape, and terrorism charges. Visitors to the church website got to vote for the appropriate penalty and overwhelmingly chose incineration. The Arabic channel broke off its live stream for the incendiary portion of the proceedings, but Jones made sure the scene was available on his website. Assistant pastor Wayne Sapp doused the book in gasoline and set it on fire with a stove lighter.
The mainstream American media, uncharacteristically observant of their public responsibility, largely chose to ignore the spectacle. But thanks to the satellite stream and the church's shameless self-promotion online, word and images of the event soon reached its intended target audience in the Middle East. Today, in Mazar-i-Sharif, usually one of Afghanistan's safest cities, the first violent backlash occurred. Responding to news of the desecration, a crowd of outraged protesters overran a U.N. compound, killing at least seven foreign staff members. Back home in oblivion, Pastor Jones refuses to take any responsibility for the deaths, though Secretary Gates had warned him of precisely such outcomes in their conversation last September. Instead, he feels vindicated. "This just shows you the dangers of radical Islam," he says.
So just who is this pastor who shot overnight from total obscurity to international notoriety? To understand Pastor Terry Jones, it helps to visit his church as I did.
Pastor Jones refuses to take any responsibility for the deaths. Instead, he feels vindicated.
On September 7th, I went to the epicenter of this international controversy, the World Dove Outreach Center, which lies only five miles outside of central Gainesville. When I arrived a week ago, the controversy had all the trimmings of a local hullabaloo. But certain signs—the ominous appearance of trucks with satellites on them, the sudden irrelevance of next week's home game against the South Florida Bulls—suggested that this would be no pedestrian event.
To reach the church, a visitor must cut through the jungle on the outskirts of Gainesville, following a winding two-lane road and tattered power lines. One cannot miss the long driveway because it is announced by three bold signs: "Islam" "is of the" "Devil". (This isn't merely a statement, it is also advertising: The pastor recently published a book with the same title.) Visting a few days before the 9/11 anniversary and only hours after 3,000 protesters demonstrated against Dove Outreach in the streets of Jakarta, I was surprised to find that the premises were entirely unguarded. The church had received several hundred death threats by mail, email, and telephone over the last weeks—some of them credible and many of them detailed. "If something happens to us, the police feel like we brought it upon ourselves," Luke Jones, the pastor's son said happily.
The church building has the external size and shape of an army barracks. The doors to the entrance hall are two-way mirrors, and a partially shattered plastic cross hangs on the outside wall (the work of vandals, I am told). The entrance doors swung open before I could push them and Wayne, the second pastor, welcomed me inside, a handgun at his waist. Flags of 30 random nations hang from the corners of the hall (among them: Jamaica, China, Lebanon); a pink satin curtain adorns the wall behind the pulpit; above it, a plastic white dove roosts under a giant wooden cross.
The service kicked off with a hectic performance—six middle-age women belted a high-energy rock 'n' roll song for Jesus, accompanied by a five-piece band made up of four small boys and an elderly man. Attendance at the service on September 7th was sparse, with almost half of the congregation up on stage. The outsider could only marvel that this is the notorious group that's setting the world on fire—seven men in country formal: jean-blue shirts, buttoned-up, handgun tucked, wedding rings blazing; 12 women in saloon conservative: pants-suits over frilly shirts and makeup; a whole gaggle of smartly dressed children; a total of 30 people, looking giddy, like a group of pranksters that had successfully caused the clash of civilizations with one crank phone call.
The music proved to be a courtly preamble to the entrance of their leader. Finally, he arrived, a man whose effigy would burn in Kabul just a few hours later: head pastor Terry Jones, the man receiving heavenly directives to incinerate Korans. Jones looks like Josef Fritzl with a Floridian tan. Dressed in a black tuxedo, he walked solemnly to his seat. His wife, Sylvia, leaped onto the stage—the other singers regrouped behind her. The assembled girl group launched into a power ballad for Jesus, gyrating wildly.
And then the pastor finally preached. He knew how to command attention, whispering powerful statements and screaming meaningless ones, and he looked comfortable behind his pulpit. He flashed the gun strapped under his tuxedo ("Esther didn't even have a 40 cal semi-automatic!"), and complained about rumors circulating on the Internet ("they accused me of being a pedophile—though they know it's not true!"). His wife, Sylvia, beamed at him. She is the church’s composer, writing all the hymns that the congregation sings. Comic relief did not fail him, either. "We've had something worse than Moslems here…" Pastor Jones called out, and turned to me. "Reporters!"
This is particularly funny if one considers how aggressively Pastor Jones courted publicity. Shortly after he announced the Koran burning, the church drastically beefed up its presence in the unholy depths of the Web. They invested in a glossy webpage and won several thousand fans on Facebook (its fan page boasts 12,000 followers)—some of whom announced their intention to burn Korans of the own on September 11th; others simply sent the church a copy of the Koran to incinerate (they received 200). It didn't take long for the first death threats to arrive.
Producers at CNN saw the church's Facebook page and booked Pastor Jones to have anchor Rick Sanchez shake his head at him. All the other networks followed suit and a media frenzy was born. MSNBC's Chris Matthews asked Jones if anyone could dissuade him from his stated plans—former President George W. Bush, for instance, a personal hero of Jones'. But Jones offered only one option for concession—he said he was willing to call off the book-burning if Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf discontinued his plans to construct an Islamic center near ground zero. When this offer was not treated with serious consideration, he vacillated briefly by stating he would leave the final decision to burn or not to burn the Koran up to God.
His sermon that afternoon was entirely dedicated to his incendiary project. Any churchgoer hoping for more spiritual sustenance went hungry. For the moment, the pastor was not interested in the spirit, not when to his mind he was engaged in a struggle of biblical importance.
So he evoked the tale of Esther, Mordecai, and Haman—a story that has been used to justify everything from preemptive war to drunken costume parties. He said that Islam is Haman (the Persian nobleman, and commander of a vast military, who held secret plans to exterminate all the Jews in his kingdom) and Dove Outreach is Mordecai (the wise Jew that refuses to bow to Haman, provoking the hotheaded Persian into speeding up his evil plans, eventually leading to his exposure and murder). "Mordecai will not bow! This church will stand up!" he cried out, his voice cracking.
Though Jones always maintained that he hoped nobody would come to harm as a result of his book-burning, he also considers a clash between Western and Eastern civilizations "inevitable." Christians are said to be ill-prepared for this battle, and Jones chastises them for being too soft ("Wieners!"), compared to their disciplined opponents from the Middle East. The people at Dove Outreach say they believe that Muslims have conspired to invade the West and impose their values upon the people living there—somehow they will launch a combined effort. It was Pastor Jones’ idea to lure them out of hiding by burning Korans as bait.
The cry of "Wiener" turned out to be pivotal. "Islam is not going to back down!" he warned. "As the people in Germany know.” Several voices in the front row shouted enthusiastic "yeahs" in response, and their accents were German. There are nine German emigrees at Dove Outreach, two of whom are pastors. Terry Jones himself spent 30 years in Cologne, as a missionary and church leader. When he returned to the U.S. amid accusations of financial and labor abuses, a small German contingent followed him. They brought baggage: a deep aversion to everything Islamic.
"Our campaign against Islam started in Germany," the pastor's son Luke, 29, assured me in a thick West German accent. He wouldn’t specify what forms the campaign took there. Like other members of Dove Outreach, Luke comes from Cologne. More specifically, he stems from the Kalk district of the city—an area with a large Turkish population. "I grew up with Muslims!" Luke spoke with wide eyes, as if he was reminiscing about a past career in extreme sports. "Turks, Arabs, and Bosnians." Luke lived through his "druggy" phase with these boys—a bonding experience—but certain boundaries remained between them. "I could never joke about their religion," he said, shaking his head disparagingly, visibly annoyed. "These are guys who sleep with women, drink, and I can't talk to them honestly about Islam." What he found more troubling, however, was their unyielding loyalty to other Muslims. As a Christian, he always felt like a second-class friend.
Luke admits a certain admiration for Muslims because at least they are proud of who they are, and willing to fight for it. Luke came to the New World for that reason—in America one can be proud of who one is, and proud to be a Christian, he says. He was recently ordained a pastor in his father's church and a half-finished American flag tattoo extends from his wrist to his elbow.
I returned on Wednesday, September 8th to find that the 200 feet of grassland between the road and the church had turned into a camping ground for television trucks. Pastor Jones was in high demand: Cameramen relay-raced across the field when his red face peeked out of the church doors to give one of his many impromptu press conferences (at least one of which was dedicated to condemning the webhost that dropped the church website). Dozens of admirers loitered near the entrance hoping to get an autograph from the pastor, to deliver their Korans personally or to give him a letter that they said God had instructed them to write. I called Jones and discovered that he now had an agent.
Congregation members ducked from the assembled paparazzi. Only Junior Pastor Luke Jones hung around, having a grand time speaking to every reporter that approached him. He bragged that the Obama administration was planning to arrest the congregation or somehow dispose of them otherwise. Apropos, the security precautions for the ceremony were announced: Only the five church pastors and several hundred police would be allowed on the church property for the bonfire. Despite those regulations, Pastor Jones reassured the press that members of his church were ready to give their lives for this cause. Camera teams walked along the road to plot the best angle to capture the literary carnage.
Extremists throughout the United States had invested high hopes in Pastor Jones, while his own small group of family and followers revered his uncompromising determination. Surely the pastor did not want to let them down. He was carrying the weight of the world’s opprobrium on his shoulders—could he just shrug it off?
Imam Musri, sitting in his office in Orlando, about 100 miles south of Gainesville, was convinced that Jones didn't have a choice. He decided to drive to World Dove Outreach Center to take a closer look at the people involved. Junior pastor Luke opened the church entrance on the 8th to find Musri and his assistant standing there. "The press was watching—we didn't want to disrespect the guy," Luke says. He brought him to his father. They had a short meeting without result. "We don't know if anyone sent him," Luke says. Imam Musri maintains that he visited Dove Outreach on his own impetus.
Later that day, the imam called Jones and they agreed to hold a more substantial meeting on the following day. That Jones was willing to meet with him a second time indicated to Musri that the pastor was getting cold feet. "I had the suspicion that he was looking for a reason to call it quits," the imam told me.
When the imam returned Thursday, he encountered a man who was visibly afraid, and Musri didn't seek to allay his fears. The pastor had planned to make his final decision on Saturday. With the authority of 40 years of Koranic study under his belt, Musri explained to him why that wouldn't work. "I told him that if he waits another day, then we'll go into Eid ul-Fitr with this matter unresolved. Which means that one billion muslims will go to their mosques and hear about you. They don't know you have only 30 members or less."
Then Secretary of Defense Robert Gates called to offer Jones some choice words over the phone. That didn't affect Jones as much as a call he received from a Christian woman living in Pakistan. These were people the pastor had never considered, he said later.
The imam is a talented negotiator, meaning he understands something about pride. He also had gleaned the obvious about the pastor: that he was now almost fatally addicted to attention. The pastor knew that if he went through with the book burning, he would have to go into hiding, and that meant his public position, along with the books, would also be going up in smoke. But giving in could also mean fading into insignificance. The pastor needed another gig. The imam, who is also an opponent of the “ground zero mosque,” suggested that the two of them visit Imam Feisal in New York. Pastor Jones could parlay his role as worst person in the world into a job as a respected diplomat. Pastor Jones liked the sound of it—he could stop the advance of radical Islam by stopping the construction of the "ground zero mosque." As it happened, Musri didn't manage to reach Feisal, but he did reach his wife. Her husband would amenable to such a meeting, she decided on his behalf
"He thought for a very long time how we should organize the press conference," the imam said. "He went for a walk to think it over. Kept changing his mind. 'Shall we both speak? Should we take questions? Maybe only I should speak? Maybe I'd prefer to have a press conference today, and take questions tomorrow.' He was very concerned about this—I let him plan it by himself." The logic of vanity is strict and usually simple.
The story started with farce, seemed destined for tragedy, and ended as farce. The pastor stepped in front of the press with the imam at his side. "He completely stretched our agreement, stretched our words," Musri summarizes. Jones told the press that he had an agreement with Imam Feisal to not burn Korans and Feisal wouldn't build the Islamic center two blocks from ground zero. Musri didn't contradict him directly at the press conference—he waited for things to settle, before clarifying that no clear agreement had been forged. The pastor responded by insinuating that burning Korans was on the table again. He needed 24 hours to reconsider, he said, while looking at the ground in shame.
The disappointed members of the press ran with the "Koran-burning still possible" angle, though everyone recognized that the imam’s real triumph had been to persuade the pastor that his life in the limelight would end in darkness if he ever really did burn books. The pastor's faux ultimatum was pure blackmail—it ran out without a word from Pastor Jones, and the riots it incurred in Kabul killed one man.
Another pastor looked meeker than ever as he drove away from the compound. His wife wouldn't say whether she was disappointed, but looked like she'd been crying. Pastor Luke seemed to be the only person enjoying himself. "We showed the world how afraid everyone is of radical Islam. Look at all the disaster people predicted if we burn the Koran."
"We did something very important—we don't know yet how important," he concluded. He held his head high and his expression had the pride and certainty of small-town prophets everywhere. Possibly he had a vision—how his own Bible might soon feature an addendum about a small Florida church and their imaginary bonfire.
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Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:00 pm |
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theboyzmom
F L I N T O I D
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| The problem is that if you are not willing to stand up for all free speech - even that as reprehensible as his - then you can not stand up for any free speech. Speech that you agree with is easy to stand up for - that which you disagree with is the trick. |
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Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:54 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Jones knew the Taliban would use any excuse to create a violent situation. The Afghan leader helped orchestrate this mess to improve his position when the US troops leave. Jones knew his actions amounted to terrorism. Speech that incites violence can never be condoned. He knew he was endangering our troops and others. First Amendment speech does and must have limits.
Jones promised the church would not burn a koran, so in his desire to create a situation that gave him attention he created a new entity to do the task. He wants the attention and hopes to build a church like tht one he had in Germany, where he controlled the lives and fortunes of his members. He has aligned himself with organizations that hate Islam.
Jones was forced out of his former church in Germany and has not been able to create a church with over 50 members in the United States.
He cotrolled his German church like a dictator and members have since spoken out against him and many are in counciling.
What you have is an American zealot inciting foreign zealots, religious extremism on both sides. some of the leaders that killed the UN officials have been said to have accents that were from other areas. Jones and his small radical group fed into those who want to hurt our country and the ramifications will be long lasting. There has already been 4 days of violence and sores of our troops are being killed as the battles have accelerated.
This is no different than the wild west days of inciting a mob to violence. |
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Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:30 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:37 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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The Supreme Court upheld these laws. In Schenck v. United States (1919), the Court upheld the conviction of an individual who had mailed leaflets that argued that the military draft violated the 13th Amendment as a form of involuntary servitude and advocated repealing the draft law. Even though the leaflet was not accused of causing any instances of draft resistance, the Court found that its intention to bring about obstruction of the draft was clear. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., writing for the Court, then famously declared: “The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre, and causing a panic.”
One week later, the Court upheld two more decisions under the Espionage Act. In Frohwerk v. United States (1919), two individuals found guilty had published a newspaper in German that was critical of the U.S. war objectives. The efficacy of their effort was not an issue. It was enough, Justice Holmes wrote, that their writings could “kindle a flame” that could undermine the government’s efforts. In Debs v. United States (1919), Socialist Party leader Eugene Debs was sentenced to 10 years in prison for declaring, in the midst of a speech on socialism, that “you need to know that you are fit for something better than slavery and cannon fodder,” a reference to the military draft. That small statement was sufficient to run afoul of the Espionage Act’s prohibition against interference with military recruitment.
In Schenck, Holmes had used the words “clear and present danger” to justify upholding the conviction. He soon received an opportunity to elaborate on what became known as the “clear and present danger” test, although this time it was in a dissent. Again, the vehicle for the Court’s decision was a conviction under the Espionage Act. This time, the convicted individuals were Russian immigrants who had passed out leaflets to protest the dispatch of American troops to Eastern Europe after the Russian revolution. The Court, harking back to the idea that speech with the bad tendency to bring about harmful results, upheld the convictions in Abrams v. United States (1919).
Holmes dissented. He wrote that the government could only “punish speech that produces or is intended to produce a clear and imminent danger that it will bring about forthwith certain substantive evils.” He added that “Congress certainly cannot forbid all effort to change the mind of the country.” Instead, it is limited to regulating expressions that “so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.” That, he said, was not present in this case, which he characterized as involving “the surreptitious publishing of a silly leaflet by an unknown man.”
The battle for supremacy between the bad-tendency test and the clear-and-present-danger test continued, as the Court sorted out which test best served constitutional purposes. In Gitlow v. New York (1925), the defendants had published a manifesto advocating political strikes and were convicted of a New York law that prohibited advocacy of the violent overthrow of the government. In upholding the convictions, the Court refused to use the clear and present analysis. In dissent, Holmes suggested that there was no real immediate danger and thus the First Amendment protected the speech in question.
Whitney v. California (1927) marked the last hurrah for the bad-tendency test. There, the Court upheld the conviction of a woman who had attended an organizational meeting of the California branch of the Communist Labor Party. Though she had taken a more mainstream position at the meeting than the others who had prevailed, the Court found that the legislature had the right to enact laws punishing her participation as an abuse of free speech because it determined it was “inimical to the public welfare, tend[ed] to incite to crime, disturb[ed] the public peace, or endanger[ed] the foundations of organized government and threaten[ed] its overthrow by unlawful means.”
Justice Louis Brandeis, joined by Justice Holmes, concurred in an opinion that read more like a dissent. He wrote:
"Fear of serious injury cannot alone justify suppression of free speech and assembly. Men feared witches and burnt women. It is the function of speech to free men from the bondage of irrational fears. To justify suppression of free speech there must be reasonable ground to fear that serious evil will result if free speech is practiced. There must be reasonable ground to believe that the danger apprehended is imminent. There must be reasonable ground to believe that the evil to be prevented is a serious one."
He added, “even advocacy of [law] violation however reprehensible morally, is not a justification for denying free speech where the advocacy falls short of incitement and there is nothing to indicate that the advocacy would be immediately acted upon.” |
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Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:39 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Radical preacher Terry Jones jailed for refusing to pay $1 bond; plans to hold rally at mosque
By Nina Mandell
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Saturday, April 23rd 2011, 2:11 PM
Mario Tama/GettyControversial Florida pastor Terry Jones could be headed back to jail, prosecutors said. Related NewsEditorial: Blood on his handsGunman opens fire in Detroit police precinctAfghans continue to rally against Koran burning 1 Detroit police officer killed, 4 others wounded in ambush shootingDetroit bar busted for 14-year-old topless dancerDetroit's City Hall slowed investigation into stripper murder - lawsuitTerry Jones, the radical Koran-burning preacher, was sent to jail in Michigan on Friday after he refused to pay $1 bond.
A jury ruled that a protest the hate-spewing Florida pastor planned outside the country's largest mosque was likely to provoke violence.
The court ordered that he pay the symbolic bond on the condition that he, along with a supporter, stay away from the center for three years.
But he refused to immediately hand over the dough -- and then promised to hold the rally anyways - despite being denied a permit and being ordered by the court not to, the Wall Street Journal reported.
He later posted the bond and along with his supporter, Wayne Sapp, was released.
"The City of Dearborn used the court as an instrument to prevent our protest from taking place today as scheduled, and has now violated our civil liberties," he said in a statement to the Journal. "We will be in contact with legal representation and plan to protest next week in front of the Islamic Center."
Sapp told reporters that he was well protected under the first amendment.
"That's what made America great," he said. "We're entitled to our opinion."
Jones made international news earlier this year when he burned the Muslim holy book.
Dearborn, a suburb of Detroit, is known for its high concentration of Muslims.
Prosecutors worry that the protest could draw a high number of counter-protestors as well, according the Journal.
The decision came less than a day after Jones accidentally fired a .40 caliber handgun outside of television studio. In the courtroom, according to the Detroit Free Press, he told reporters it was an accident.
nmandell@nydailynews.com
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Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:53 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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TPMMuckraker
Dearborn Mayor To Terry Jones: If We Were Under Sharia Law Would We Have Three Strip Clubs?
Jillian Rayfield | April 21, 2011, 5:35PM378
Mayor of Dearborn M Jack O'Reilly Jr. and Pastor Terry Jones
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Islamophobia, Michigan, Terry Jones
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Jack O'Reilly Jr., the mayor of Dearborn, Michigan, has written an open letter to publicity-seeking, Quran-burning Florida pastor Terry Jones, in an effort to dissuade him from protesting in front of a Dearborn mosque. In the letter, O'Reilly tells Jones it's ridiculous to believe that the city is under Sharia law: "If Dearborn practiced Sharia law, would we have three adult entertainment bars and more alcohol-licensed bars and restaurants per capita than most other cities?"
"None of that should be allowed under Sharia law," O'Reilly said.
Jones has been planning a protest for Friday in front of Dearborn's Islamic Center of America, in opposition to "radical Islam" and Sharia law. "There is no place better than there to present this message," he said. He also said he plans to bring a pistol with him, but has no plans to burn the Quran, the em>Detroit News reports. Jones added that they are "coming there totally in peace."
Dearborn is home to one of the highest percentages of Arab-American residents in the country.
Mayor O'Reilly wrote the letter to Jones on Wednesday in the hopes he might stay away, and noted the presence of the strip clubs and bars as well as the fact that the Dearborn Sausage factory (a purveyor of many things pork) is right next to a mosque. "No one has ever objected," he wrote.
"Our commitment to the Constitution is unwavering, not merely convenient, which makes your hyperbole about Sharia Law being practiced in the courts or civil law of Dearborn nonsensical," O'Reilly said. "So, you are coming to protest against an imaginary threat that doesn't exist in our community. Not in our courts, not at our City Hall, not on our streets and not in any of our places of worship."
On Wednesday, the city denied Jones a permit to protest outside the mosque, citing "public safety reasons." City spokeswoman Mary Laundroche even said Jones could be arrested if he went through with it. Officials said he could protest in one of the city's "free speech zones" instead.
Thursday, Jones appeared in District Court, where a judge ruled that Jones must pay a "peace bond" to cover the costs of extra law enforcement officials to cover the event. Jones had previously said he would not pay the bond, but will go on with the protest.
So why has Jones come to Dearborn in the first place? Not that Jones requires much in way of inspiration, but he may have taken to the idea that the city is under Sharia law via an incident in June 2009 during the Arab International Festival, Niraj Warikoo of the Detroit Free-Press explains. A group of Christian evangelicals yelled at attendees "that they were going to hell because they were Muslim," and some among them were escorted out by security. The video of the incident was put up on YouTube, and was used as "proof" that the city was under Sharia law by some anti-Islam right-wingers.
Jones caused a huge controversy last fall when he announced plans to burn number of copies of the Quran on September 11, though was pressured into calling it off. But he eventually did burn a Quran in March, which resulted in several days of violent protests in Afghanistan in which at least two dozen people died.
The same mosque was targeted in January in an alleged bomb plot by an Army veteran. |
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Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:58 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Terry Jones: Despite judge's order, I will protest at mosque next week
10:33 AM, Apr. 23, 2011 | Comments
:
Written by
NIRAJ WARIKOO
DETROIT FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER Filed Under
News
Nation/World
Florida pastor Terry Jones makes his closing argument to the jury, Friday, April 22, 2011 in Dearborn, Mich. A judge has ordered Jones, a Florida pastor to jail after he refused to pay a $1 peace bond over a planned demonstration outside a Michigan mosque. / John T. Greilick, Pool / AP
Peaceful protest against Rev.Terry Jones
A defiant Terry Jones says he plans to protest next week at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn despite a judge's order that he stay from the mosque for three years. The Quran-burning pastor from Florida said his rights were violated Friday by a judge due to the influence of Islamic law.
"We plan to protest next week in front of the Islamic Center," Pastor Terry Jones said today.
"The arrests, the whole proceedings, were a definite violation of our Constitutional rights," Jones added. "As a matter of fact, we were arrested and had not even committed a crime. It is a complete violation of our First Amendment right of freedom of speech. It was clearly influenced by the mosque. "
Jones had wanted to protest Friday against jihad and sharia outside the Islamic Center on Friday, but was thwarted by authorities. The center is the largest mosque in metro Detroit, a region with a sizable Muslim population.
On Friday, Judge Mark Somers ordered that Jones and Pastor Wayne Sapp be remanded to jail after a jury determined they would be likely to breach the peace. In his decision Judge Somers set a $1 cash bond for Jones and Sapp, and also said Jones and Sapp could not go to the mosque or adjacent property for three years.
The only exception would be if the leadership of the mosque, such as its board, decided it would be ok for him to visit, Somers said.
Jones said that was an example of the influence of sharia, or Islamic law, in Dearborn.
"Sharia is much closer than we thought," Jones said. "The judge even made a statement, that if the mosque elders and leadership would have desired the restraints placed on us of not going near the mosque be lifted, then he would have taken that into consideration. Thus proving that this whole thing is a direct violation of freedom of speech and that they are favoring the religion of Islam."
Jones also questioned why he was allowed to protest at a free-speech zone in front of Dearborn City Hall, but not the mosque.
Dearborn Mayor John O'Reilly Jr. said that he and his city fully support free speech, but added that the right is not absolute. It has to take into consideration the rights of others and public safety. He has said repeatedly that there is no sharia at all being practiced by Dearborn officials.
The mayor said Friday that police will take appropriate action if Jones decides to ignore the judge's orders to stay away from the mosque.
Contact Niraj Warikoo: nwarikoo@freepress.com or 313-223-4792 |
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Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:02 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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On Friday, Judge Mark Somers ordered that Jones and Pastor Wayne Sapp be remanded to jail after a jury determined they would be likely to breach the peace.
So now juries and/or judges can "determine" that someone would be likely to commit a crime & order them jailed even though no actual crime had been committed? |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:17 am |
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