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Topic: Flint School Facilities Advisory Committee's Report
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Ryan Eashoo
F L I N T O I D




Flint Schools are terrible, those kids are basically in prison! I wish the people running the schools would stop looking out for their own best interests and put the kids interests first.










quote:
Adam Ford schreef:
According to THA Williams is the cheapest school to renovate I think because it is newer and because it is bigger and they go by cost per student. My problem with Williams is it's proximaty to the prostitution/drug dealing infamous Jane st as well as it's graffiti and surroundings. I think Washington would be a better choice so the Eastside can be more inclusive and accomadate parents who don't want their children to go to school and see graffiti and prostitutes.

The committee was biased towards northern being a high school because of one line in the THA report which we never had clarified.

I agree Pierce should be stand alone. I wasn't an expert on Pierce so I wasn't able to question having that on the closure list but reading the comments I think it would be a mistake to close Pierce. It would be nice if th school board would take a look at Sarvis and the admin building. My committee members were not willing to go against Rutherford and consider alternate uses for those buildings. I think you could maybe even put real jobs in the admin and perhaps even Sarvis center and move the bloated admin building to Homedale or Whitter or Central or wherever.

I've heard the complaints about NW's neighborhood but I think we could do it. It you fixed it up, provided adequate security for once and started winning state championships I might even support integration of NW. It's really the only traditional high school we have in Flint and traditional high schools seem t work quite well in the rest of the county where children are more of a priority.

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Post Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:36 pm 
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D

quote:
Ryan Eashoo schreef:

Flint Schools are terrible, those kids are basically in prison! I wish the people running the schools would stop looking out for their own best interests and put the kids interests first.



Just to clarify I think our state prisons are in way better shape which makes sense because we spend way more to put someone in prison for a year than send them to school for a year.
Post Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:19 am 
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rapunzel11
F L I N T O I D

Adam,

I strongly question the THA report on Williams School!!
I would like to SEE that report.
Did you Visit that building?

At the time it was built it was highly acclaimed..Yada yada...
State of the art ...rooms without walls etc..

Well that state of the art stuff fell by the wayside at other buildings also.

Partitions were put up, teachers placed cabinets to section off areas for privacy ect. the whole concept is faulty.

The building for the most part is a dark hole. Lack of light. The center library area was to be an open area but is now closed off from natural light.

The bathrooms are built for two in tall kdg. children.

The flat roof has run off onto sidewalk areas. When there is rain or snow it runs off where people are supposed to walk. IT is a disaster waiting to happen.

Every election I worry about handicap accessabilty and someone suing from a fall to get to polling location.

I believe they did just put in a new roof because Edison let the building fall in to such disrepair they had to fix it because it was it was the worst!!!

Yes, I support keeping that building open because to turn off the light in that area will have a surrounding effect.

The darkness will grow.

The city said they would fix up the park area...but did not.

Prostitutes were parking "working" in the park area during school hours.
We got the Flint PD to stop some of that.
the parking lot fills with water as the drains back up.

That has not been fixed. Many other structural problems not addressed.

The THA report can NOT be Correct.

Peace,
RAP
quote:
Adam Ford schreef:
According to THA Williams is the cheapest school to renovate I think because it is newer and because it is bigger and they go by cost per student. My problem with Williams is it's proximaty to the prostitution/drug dealing infamous Jane st as well as it's graffiti and surroundings. I think Washington would be a better choice so the Eastside can be more inclusive and accomadate parents who don't want their children to go to school and see graffiti and prostitutes.

The committee was biased towards northern being a high school because of one line in the THA report which we never had clarified.

I agree Pierce should be stand alone. I wasn't an expert on Pierce so I wasn't able to question having that on the closure list but reading the comments I think it would be a mistake to close Pierce. It would be nice if th school board would take a look at Sarvis and the admin building. My committee members were not willing to go against Rutherford and consider alternate uses for those buildings. I think you could maybe even put real jobs in the admin and perhaps even Sarvis center and move the bloated admin building to Homedale or Whitter or Central or wherever.

I've heard the complaints about NW's neighborhood but I think we could do it. It you fixed it up, provided adequate security for once and started winning state championships I might even support integration of NW. It's really the only traditional high school we have in Flint and traditional high schools seem t work quite well in the rest of the county where children are more of a priority.

_________________
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
John F. Kennedy, speech at Vanderbilt University, May 18, 1963
Post Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:04 am 
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D

quote:
rapunzel11 schreef:
Adam,

I strongly question the THA report on Williams School!!
I would like to SEE that report.
Did you Visit that building?

At the time it was built it was highly acclaimed..Yada yada...
State of the art ...rooms without walls etc..

Well that state of the art stuff fell by the wayside at other buildings also.

Partitions were put up, teachers placed cabinets to section off areas for privacy ect. the whole concept is faulty.

The building for the most part is a dark hole. Lack of light. The center library area was to be an open area but is now closed off from natural light.

The bathrooms are built for two in tall kdg. children.

The flat roof has run off onto sidewalk areas. When there is rain or snow it runs off where people are supposed to walk. IT is a disaster waiting to happen.

Every election I worry about handicap accessabilty and someone suing from a fall to get to polling location.

I believe they did just put in a new roof because Edison let the building fall in to such disrepair they had to fix it because it was it was the worst!!!

Yes, I support keeping that building open because to turn off the light in that area will have a surrounding effect.

The darkness will grow.

The city said they would fix up the park area...but did not.

Prostitutes were parking "working" in the park area during school hours.
We got the Flint PD to stop some of that.
the parking lot fills with water as the drains back up.

That has not been fixed. Many other structural problems not addressed.

The THA report can NOT be Correct.

Peace,
RAP



Williams is a big schools so it's cost per student would be lower.

I have been in Williams and disliked it immesly. The parking lot busted out lights gang graffiti disastrous neighborhood gettoness inside and emptyness with it's lack if students were kind of a downr to me although I do here the staff there is amazing I think they could function better at Washington.

The choice appears to be between Williams and Washington. To me Washington looks like a real school in at least a halfway decent neighborhood with good visibility and good traffic.

To me Williams would classify as being in the Jane Street neighborhood. Although it has not had any recent shootings I'm not sure that's the best area to send children to which explains why children and parents may encounter prostitutes working in that area.

Williams is newer so they may have missed some problems like drainage. They did find Williams needs $4 million to renovate but it is a big school so that puts it ahead of about 14 other schools when you look at cost per student. It also helps it on energy costs and it's newer so THA was biased towards it.

Washington has a $6 million cost to renovate but I think that could be made up in on enrollment figures. I don't see why parents would send there children to the drug/prostituttion zone when there's a charter in the area which I think helps explains some of Williams very low enrollment.
Post Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:29 am 
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Ryan Eashoo
F L I N T O I D

Exactly Adam, Flint Schools are not only fighting against their own image problem, but also that of the City of Flint. Drug Houses, Prositutes, Boarded up houses, big tall grass and weeds.

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Post Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:38 am 
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D

Not every case is a lost case scenario. In some case like Northwestern we may have to send kids to a "bad neighborhood" in the case of Wiliams and Washington I think we could pull kids out of the drug and prostitution zone and send them to an acceptable school in a decent neighborhood. Even in the case of Northwestern if we did decide to make that the North end high school than it might be a good idea to not divert as much away from the north end and maybe move some resources into a key area like Northwestern instead of continuously going "all in" on downtown and basically ignoring the north end and other areas.

You could probably mow and fix up a lot of land bank houses with the millions Dan spent on his building.
Post Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:26 am 
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rapunzel11
F L I N T O I D

Adam,

I have had parents complain about prostitutes on the street in front of washington school. Parents that lived down the street refused to send their kids there. Instead they went to Sobey-then Potter then Richfield.

I know the principals at both washington & williams. They are excellent.
Both schools have excellent parent facilitators...in a depressed area that is CRUCIAL. They have many programs to serve the parents and children in a poor area. THOSE resources are needed for those families.

NW has empty housing complexes in front of the school. Gun shots , drug holes etc. but the building of NW is excellent.

We need better security in all secondary buildings. Parents percieve all High and middle schools as unsafe. long lines in metal detectors every am.
NW had kids being hurt with locks in socks last year.
Kid got picked up today from Mckinley with a bag of weed.

Schools need to be an Oasis in any type of area. DTM is in a rough area but you can walk into that building and FEEL the safety. It is a well run building with offices of PD and FIA in the building.

We have security cameras in buildings but NO one watching them.
The security staff leaves alot to be desired in all secondary schools.
Kids from Central say PD is called there every day.

We need to close some buildings and then bring in resources from the state, county and city to make the remaining buildings safe. Children need an oasis for education.

Peace,
RAP

_________________
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
John F. Kennedy, speech at Vanderbilt University, May 18, 1963
Post Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:12 pm 
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D

Do you really think the Washington area is bad as Williams? I do know the drive to Washington is far more upbeat than the drive to Williams and both are about the same distance to me.

NW would probably require at least $50,000 if not $100,000 or more in "security improvements" but I think it is doable.

Is SW unsafe? I've heard Central is not too horrible but NW and Northern are in the killing zones so I can see why people would have that impression.

If Flint schools are as good at providing security as they are maintaining buildings it's amazing kids aren't being shot in school.
Post Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:15 am 
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terrybankert
F L I N T O I D

FLINT CITIZENS, ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT SCHOOLS CLOSING?
GET INVOLVED!
By Terry Bankert.

YOU ARE ALREADY INVOLVED THROUGH A CITIZENS GROUP EMPANELED BY THE FLINT BOARD OF EDUCATION THAT HAS RELEASED A REPORT THAT CONCLUDES FLINT HAS MANY SCHOOLS THAT MUST BE CLOSED.

The Flint Board of Education by summer will decide which Flint Schools to Close.For economic reasons many must and will be closed. But which ones?

ARE YOU A RESPONSIBLE FLINT CITIZEN?

How is a responsible community involved in the decision making process of which schools to close?

You, Flintoid's already are. A Citizens Committee guided by THE hired guns Ira Rutherford and staff supported by a big time school design outfit, has produced a mind numbing document called a Facilities Advisory report.

YOUR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS HAVE PRODUCED A REPORT

Citizens, your friends and neighbors, have worked thousands of hours to produce this report. Responsible media commercial and otherwise are asked to help distribute this report, promote the community informational meetings and encourage responsible citizens to share their opinion to the Board and support as a unified community AND BACK the final decision of the board. My suppoort of the Boards decision will be premised on their listening to the community.

WHAT WE SHOULD NOT WANT TO HAPPEN IS FOR THE BIG MOUTHS TO GET THE SPOTLIGHT.

The last thing I desire is for a bunch of loud mouth naysayers who have not read the report or attended the informational meetings to spout off to the press and make us, who care about this town, all look like a bunch of fools.

On the other hand we must help create an environment where the board is strongly encourage to follow the citizens report and the views of responsible citizens who disagree wilth all or part of the report.

Citizen input is a good thing. Remember the Flint Board of Education is composed of our neighbors and friends who chose to run for this non paying office.

If you hear the opportunist or justly angry citizens saying things that just are not true I challenge that your reponsibility is to speak up. You can only do that if you educate yourself and then others.

Many of our friends were on that committee. I presume the citizens committee was promised they would not have to take any heat for their report. But those that do mind heat should be actively involved and visable in this process.

They said many schools have to be closed?

Many of use attended a Flint Board of Education meeting recently to find out which schools are to be closed. What we were given was the community report on the process used by a citizens group to create options of several senerios which determined which schools to keep open. It irritated many of us to no end.

We learned that many schools have to be closed?

The Flint Board of Education now has scheduled a series of informational meeting mis characterized as town hall meetings. The process of the selection of the citizens committee ,its decision making process , and the resulting document will be explained and handed out. A hired gun will facilitate/control the presentation to the community of the citizens report and channel the inevitable community comment. Unknown is whether any of the citizens that actually wrote the report will be present at these meetings.

At each informational meeting we will be essentilly presented with the conclusion that many schools have to be closed .

The Administration of the Flint Schools led by our able superintendent mean while , as is her responsibility, has a process by which her administration will propose a plan for school closings to take to the Flint Board of education.

She has pledged to consider the findings of the citizens group. But her's is the final responsibility to propose a plan to the decison makers, the Flint Board Of Education.

She must inevitably conclude that many schools have to be closed.

Someday soon our elected Flint Board of Education will then deliberate on the report of the superintendent of schools. The report will find its way to the full board and then committee or committe then to full board

The deliberation will be premised on the fact that many schools have to be closed.

This process will inevitably lead to a public meeting, where a plan is voted for adoption to resolve the issues that many schools have to be closed.

Remember this process , your formalized citizen involvement, has been going on for a year.

That being the process of deciding which schools to close.

You the community have been represented by a citizens committee.

They have issued a report, which is a recommended process to decide which schools to close. The report has been presented to the board and later to the community 4 times, vapors of differing senerios of which schools are to be closed has been whispeing about. These options are now in the light of day for you to see if you will kindly open your eyes.

Citizens have had a variety ways to be involved in this controlled process of community release of a hot button decision on identifying schools to be closed.

Why?Because many schools have to be closed.

Remember the given we all know is that Flint has too many schools because of our declining student population and declining school revenues.

The moment the schools are identified a thousand people who "suddenly "hear that their favorite school is to be closed will rise up and shout their discontent. NOT MY SCHOOL, CLOSE THEIRS!

They will say how dare you close my neighborhood school. Recalls will be threatened , name calling will begun, board members threatened, coalitions will be formed, media coverage will be skewed, meetings will be packed, opportuninistic candidates will run for the board saying " Vote for me and no schools will be closed". Angry voices will say You need to listen to the community. ..........Nonsense THEY ALREADY ARE

In the end schools will be closed because they must.

Last minuet community eruptions probably will not have much. To have an affect you must educate yourself and become involved now.

The community has been involved in this process for a year by the actions of a citizens group that has produced a report on the process for deciding which schools to close.

Community information meeting are sheduled to present this citizens report to the community. Not the boards pick for which schools are to be closed.The Communities (citizens,you,) report on the process is before you.The report will help you to create your own informed opinion and arm you for participation in meaningful community debate.

I argue that responsible citizens should read this report discuss it with their friends. We should advocate to the board that they follow this citizens road map to school closures or explain to us why and how they have deviated.

At the community hearings just prior to the final board vote should be on the issues of board compliance or divergence with the citizens report.

If you are a responsible Flint Citizen get involved in this process early and lets raise the pitch of responsible citizens that will be truth sayers to the uniformed. Help your city, help your kids get involved now in this process.

Here is the committee report
http://www.flintschools.org/pdfs/FACrpt2008_12.pdf


Here are the community informational meeting

FLINTOIDS-PUT THESE IN YOUR CALENDAR AND ATTEND ONE PLEASE

Community Meeting to discuss the citizens report from the Citizens Advisory Committee'
MONDAY, 1/26/09, CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL 7 pm Cafeteria.
TUESDAY , 1/27/09, NORTHERN HIGH SCHOOL 7 pm Cafeteria
WEDNESDAY, 1/28/09 SOUTHWESTEREN ACADEMY 7 p.m. Cafeteria
THURSDAY, 1/29/09 NORTHWESTERN HIGH SCHOOL 7 p.m. Cafeteria
http://www.flintschools.org/


I am involed in a group that is focused on this issue, but I am not the spokespeson. These words are mine alone. You many be in other groups with school interest ,get this information out to your friends.

WHY? BECAUSE MANY SCHOOLS HAVE TO BE CLOSED.

The Flint Board of Education will soon pick which ones, schools to close, by resolution and budget. Responsible citizens should be involved early in this process and promote all or part of the community report or responsibly tell us why you disagree.

Why? Because many schools have to be closed and when the ones to be closed are picked citizens will become angry when their childens school or their neighborhood school is planned to be closed. Responsible citizens get informed and get involved.

What are your thoughts?

Posted here and Good Moning Flint
by
Terry bankert

If you want to give your opinion I suggest a thread on Flint Talk that follows.

http://flinttalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=40087#40087


OR SEND ME AN EMAIL AND I WILL SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS A BEST I CAN.

ATTORNEYBANKERT@YAHOO.COM

_________________
Join in the discussion here at Flint Talk , Face Book, Google Blogger " Good Morning Flint" , Twitter, Blogging For Michgian" and MLIVE.
If you want to be seen ,show up.If you want to be heard, stand up and speak.Do not wait to follow, just lead.
Post Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:01 am 
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Ryan Eashoo
F L I N T O I D


Concerned? I think we need a close a ton of schools, we have too many now.

_________________
Flint Michigan Resident, Tax Payer, Flint Nutt - Local REALTOR - Activist. www.FlintTown.com
Post Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:05 am 
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terrybankert
F L I N T O I D

I agree, the question is which ones. This will be a tough decision for the board, which ones. The community report established a criteria for closing but the school board will pick the ones. A delay will only damage the system. I read the Citizen Advisory Facilities report. They did a good Job . One of the Flint Talk posters was on that group. Good job Adam. I am circulating the report and the dates and locations of the 4 community meetings.

_________________
Join in the discussion here at Flint Talk , Face Book, Google Blogger " Good Morning Flint" , Twitter, Blogging For Michgian" and MLIVE.
If you want to be seen ,show up.If you want to be heard, stand up and speak.Do not wait to follow, just lead.
Post Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:00 am 
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Ryan Eashoo
F L I N T O I D



I think if the a school met the criteria to be closed then you have to close those schools. Bottom line, or else you set a terrible precedent.

_________________
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Post Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:01 pm 
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ManinthePinStripeSuit
F L I N T O I D

After reading Terry's & your comments. It seems to me that the
problem is NOT only the School District, but the City of Flint as
well, and to me it sounds like if the trouble is removed from
around the Schools that there is hope. Am I right or wrong?

Ryan, I believe that you want these schools closed because
there's no students. Which is why these School buildings are
ruin, and the State isn't putting money into the Schools when
there is NO STUDENTS.

Ted, I take it that you are a lawyer meaning that you should
know how the game is played, and have you forgotten that
Flint Students have a right to Education? I am very active in the
Detroit's inner-city School Districts, and I see plainly that these
Districts are messed up because of greedy ass Administrators
who are interested in their pockets not the students Education.

_________________
WilliamX
MIB Doom Squad
Post Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:30 pm 
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ManinthePinStripeSuit
F L I N T O I D

After re-reading Rap's post it contains many good suggestions,
It also talking about the responsibilities of the City, the School
Administrators, and the parents. Another reality that Rapunzel
stated was (We need better security in all secondary buildings.
Parents percieve all High and middle schools as unsafe. long
lines in metal detectors every am. NW had kids being hurt
with locks in socks last year. Kid got picked up today from
Mckinley with a bag of weed.

Schools need to be an Oasis in any type of area. DTM is in a
rough area but you can walk into that building and FEEL the
safety. It is a well run building with offices of PD and FIA in
the building.

We have security cameras in buildings but NO one watching them.
The security staff leaves alot to be desired in all secondary schools.
Kids from Central say PD is called there every day.

Rap your comments are understandable, and credit need to be
given where its due. In most Cities that is suffering a lack of funds
will have these problems, and outsiders who live in a peaceful,
well funded District can not compare their District with any other
District that's suffering from many crisis.

I blame this on the City, County, and State Board of Education,
and other officials who have the authority to make a differents.
Citizens are tax-payers with a voice if they let their voices be heard,
but most parents is to damn busy to even show concern about what
is taking place, and the Students are the ones who is suffering.

As far as the crime that take place in or around the Schools that's
the Police Dept's job to handle such issues, and if the School Security
personnal is to busy doing other things Fire Their a**es.
Kids now and days bring weapons to School to impress their friends
that they are cool, and again no one seem to know where the weed
or the weapons come from.

Everything that I have posted concerning the Schools is a reality.
I am out here in my School District everyday visiting different
School sites, talking to the students about their concerns, and
on business days when I get a break from my professional job I
am in Lansing complaining.

In closing, I have passed through same of the Black school areas
in Flint (I do not recall their names), but some School hoods is like
the warzones in Viet nam, and yet I am impressed seen many of
the students still entering the buildings trying to get a good
education. Start thinking about how to help these students, and
many need to stop looking down on these bad areas as if they
are GOD, do something to help.

Why do outside the district people seem to always criticize the
inner-city School System

_________________
WilliamX
MIB Doom Squad
Post Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:13 pm 
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rapunzel11
F L I N T O I D

Pin-Stripe,
I have visited all areas surrounding all Flint Schools.

You said," I have passed through same of the Black school areas
in Flint (I do not recall their names), but some School hoods is like
the warzones in Viet nam, and yet I am impressed seen many of
the students still entering the buildings trying to get a good
education. Start thinking about how to help these students, and
many need to stop looking down on these bad areas as if they
are GOD, do something to help. "

I have visited some"Black School areas" that are beautiful communities and some poor white communties that are corners of drug houses & prostitution.

Relax on the color of the children!

All children deserve a quality, safe place to have the opportunity of education.

Even the children of prostitutes and crack heads deserve a leg up from the place they began. They may take a little extra effort to unlearn "street protacol" if they have an oasis to learn in.

By providing Safe Havens we can then encourage them to communicate rather than fight for "disrespect'. By giving them reasons to respect their accomplishments and be proud of themselves they have the seed to grow their future.

Suburban schools have their problems too, Just not as many hit the news.
Keeping up with the jones causes peer pressure and suicide. Drug use in suburban schools doubles drug use in urban schools.

Urban schools have a higher concentration of Low income families and need a higher concentration of combined resourses- city- state- federal entities.

Peace,
RAP

_________________
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
John F. Kennedy, speech at Vanderbilt University, May 18, 1963
Post Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:00 am 
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